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Poster: ggshubin Date: Jul 23, 2012 11:40am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Hell's Angels (1930)

Just checking on Hell's Angels. It is up here for download and Alpha sells it. I looked up the copyright data and found an original entry for 1930 (L1363) but no renewal in either 1957 or 1958. So, is this definitely public domain?

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Poster: oldbones Date: Jul 23, 2012 1:04pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

Found this;

HELL'S ANGELS, a photoplay in sixteen
reels by Caddo Co,, Inc. © 27May30;
LP1363. Hughes Tool Co. (PWH);
15May58; R214716


Check for a notice in the credits.



This post was modified by oldbones on 2012-07-23 20:01:21

This post was modified by oldbones on 2012-07-23 20:03:37

This post was modified by oldbones on 2012-07-23 20:04:19

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Poster: ggshubin Date: Jul 23, 2012 2:08pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

Thanks! I finally found that stupid renewal listing, but it took forever. I had to search under Hughes Tool. I'll check the credits.

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Poster: billymays55 Date: Jul 23, 2012 4:32pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

if this is NOT pd then why is Alpha selling it? Moongleam is gonna be crushed and he might get fired :)

I see what happened you saw alpha was selling it, but it was not by alpha, fyi alpha sells other peoples dvds as well as their own

This post was modified by billymays55 on 2012-07-23 23:32:59

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Poster: billymays55 Date: Jul 23, 2012 4:29pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

here is screen shot of title card

Attachment: vlcsnap-2012-03-20-08h31m59s183.png

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Poster: jonc Date: Jul 23, 2012 5:47pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

As with Arsenic and Old Lace, it isn't a valid copyright notice. For reference, see Stanford's Copyright and Fair Use sight:

http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter0/0-b.html#2

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Poster: billymays55 Date: Jul 23, 2012 6:37pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

http://archive.org/about/faqs.php

2) Is the copyright notice in the correct format? It needs to state three things - the word 'copyright' or the copyright symbol or '(c)', the year and who owns the copyright? If it is missing one of those elements or if there is no notice, it could be public domain. If you aren't sure, please post a question to the movie forum on this site.


It is "OR"

It can have one or the other, either the word copyright or just the C in the circle (copyright symbol). If it had to hae both do you know how many movies would have invalid notices?

Nice try.

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Poster: jonc Date: Jul 23, 2012 6:48pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

"Nice try?" You seem to think I'm out to hoodwink you. Google "valid copyright notice." In all cases, the symbol must be included, as well as the word, year and name.

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Poster: Administrator, Curator, or StaffVideo-Cellar Date: Jul 24, 2012 2:45am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

No. For a notice to be valid it requires EITHER the symbol OR the word "Copyright" OR it's official abbreviation "Copr." It is valid if it includes one of those along with the date of creation/publication and owner's name.

The Copyright Act § 401
"(b) Form of Notice. — If a notice appears on the copies, it shall consist of the following three elements:

(1) the symbol © (the letter C in a circle), or the word “Copyright”, or the abbreviation “Copr.”; and

(2) the year of first publication of the work; in the case of compilations or derivative works incorporating previously published material, the year date of first publication of the compilation or derivative work is sufficient. The year date may be omitted where a pictorial, graphic, or sculptural work, with accompanying text matter, if any, is reproduced in or on greeting cards, postcards, stationery, jewelry, dolls, toys, or any useful articles; and

(3) the name of the owner of copyright in the work, or an abbreviation by which the name can be recognized, or a generally known alternative designation of the owner."

This post was modified by Video-Cellar on 2012-07-24 09:45:36

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Poster: ggshubin Date: Jul 24, 2012 10:04am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

Wow! Thanks for all the good information, guys. This all makes sense except for Alpha. On other places on archive.com, Alpha has been referenced as a place to look for double checking because if they sell it, it's probably PD. But apparently that is not always the case and sometimes they sell things which are not PD, which seems like that would make it completely useless for double checking unless there is some easy way to tell on their site which things they produce themselves and which are studio produced. Am I missing something?

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Poster: larus Date: Jul 24, 2012 11:16am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

I assume you visited www.oldies.com, which lists both Alpha Video releases as well as other releases, so you have to pay attention to who the publisher is. This is indicated by the Label field in the DVD Features section on the page.

For example, the only DVD I saw listed for Hell's Angels on www.oldies.com has the following information:
DVD Features:
Rated: Not Rated
Run Time: 2 hours, 9 minutes
Video: Black & White
Released: December 7, 2004
Originally Released: 1930
Label: Universal Studios
Encoding: Region 1 (USA & Canada)
Packaging: Keep Case
Aspect Ratio: Full Frame - 1.33

Compare this will the information describing the Alpha Video release of a Star is born:
DVD Features:
Rated: PG
Run Time: 1 hours, 52 minutes
Video: Color
Released: March 16, 2003
Originally Released: 1934
Label: Alpha Video
Encoding: Region 0 (Worldwide)
Packaging: Keep Case
Aspect Ratio: Full Frame - 1.33

In other words, only releases listing 'Alpha Video' as the label should be construed as evidence of public domain status.

This post was modified by larus on 2012-07-24 18:16:14

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Poster: skybandit Date: Jul 24, 2012 12:07pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

I've noticed that virtually ALL PD distributors handle a few titles they've either licensed, like Alpha, or didn't do the research on, like Mill Creek, whose collections change contents whenever the copyright holder complains. :)

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Poster: billymays55 Date: Jul 23, 2012 6:55pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

Well if that was true 99% of movies ever made would be PD.

Sorry but your embarrasing yourself, just log out and slowly step away from the archive.org.

I think you might give Moongleam a run for his money.

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Poster: jonc Date: Jul 23, 2012 7:06pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

No, I'm not embarrassed, billy. Do a little research. It would be a good exercise for you. ;)

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Poster: billymays55 Date: Jul 23, 2012 8:58pm
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

ok...if you are so confident you are correct, you need to start uploading some movies including

and my all time favorite INVALID notice

GONE WITH THE WIND

Enjoy!

Attachment: photo.JPG
Attachment: 2540181_f520.jpg
Attachment: 2574930_f520.jpg

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Poster: jonc Date: Jul 24, 2012 7:42am
Forum: feature_films Subject: Re: Hell's Angels (1930)

I stand corrected. :) There have been discussions of this subject in these forums in years past, I wonder if anybody else has the same understanding I do.